Recently Ed had been noticing some negativity about AVs in tweets by friend of the show and brilliant technology analyst Horace Dediu. He challenged Horace to debate the prospects for autonomous drive technology, and what resulted was a fascinating conversation that proves there is more consensus about AVs than it sometimes seems. Though the resulting episode was less of a debate than originally imagined, it is still an in-depth exploration of the past and future of AVs as they struggle out of "the trough of disillusionment."